Believer's Baptism

Number 5 on the list of things that need to happen in order to be saved is the need of baptism:

There are many views on how this needs to be accomplished; infant baptism, adults only baptism by immersion, baptism by sprinkling, to name a few. I will give my view on this issue....and will try to make it as brief as I can without (hopefully) oversimplifying it. And I hope you will do your own research on this complex topic by using the Bible as your source main source of information.

Let's first begin with reviewing the above Bible verses (all Bible verses in this post will be from the ESV version):

Matthew 28:19-20  Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mark 16:16  Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 2:38  And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.




Acts22:16  And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

We can also add to the above list the passages which tell of Jesus being baptized by John the Baptist even though He being perfect needed no forgiveness of sins....and there is this one with Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch:

Acts 8:36-37  And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?"   And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. 

There are the exceptions to the rule, such as the thief that hung on the cross beside Jesus who received no baptism (that we know of, the ritual of baptism was already in use at the time of Christ). Some take this to mean that the water baptism is a physical type for the spiritual effect of having our sins washed away by the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 1John 5:4-8 
For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. 
 And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.  
Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. 
And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 
 For there are three that testify: 
the Spirit
and the water 
and the blood; 
and these three agree.


My own view on this is that water baptism is necessary as part of the believer's testimony of the truth of his conversion. Whether the thief on the cross was or was not baptized in water is irrelevant to your and my circumstances. We are not hanging on a literal wooden cross which makes it impossible to perform such a simple task in obedience to following Jesus. Some say it must be in "the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19) some say in the name of Jesus only (Acts 2:38), the important matter is that you confess your sins and be baptized in the sacrifice of God in Christ for the remission of sins, with the realization of the incredible price Jesus paid in order to wash those sins away having died to self, being born anew in the Spirit, and then beginning a new life that is alive in Christ.


I hope this little series on salvation basics was helpful, but please do your own research, read the above verses in their full context by reading the entire books of the Bible carefully. There is so much there that cannot be summed up in a blog post. I pray that you study to show yourselves approved, and receive the full blessings from seeking the Lord with all your hearts.

It's All About Jesus

Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder.
Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility:
for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God,
that he may exalt you in due time:
Casting all your care upon him;
for he careth for you.

1 Peter 5:5-7 (KJV)

Humility is a funny thing,  the minute you think you have it you don't. My husband likes to quip "I'm humble, and I'm proud of it!".

I recently saw a post on Facebook by a gentleman who is a somewhat famous Christian performer, a singer/songwriter, who went on and on about how he isn't as wonderful as everyone keeps telling him that he is, about how terrible he is, how he's done things that caused him to lose friends, things he's embarrassed to talk about, loathsome even, and that he's wanted to commit suicide but hasn't because he's too much of a coward and doesn't want to face the Lord who would then chastise him for having cut short his life, a gift from God which only God has the right to begin and end. All the things he said were correct with what we ought to think about ourselves when our focus is on self.

These things, although true, ought to be (for the most part unless giving encouragement to someone who thinks they cannot be saved because of this or that sin in their life) a private condition that we have between ourselves and the Lord, and as we cast all of these cares on Him it is He who takes care of these things, and will exalt us in the proper way and the proper time. I read many of the comments this young man received in response to his posting. Predictably many  of them said "You are awesome" and "Amen" and some talked about the suicide of a loved one. The focus was still wrong, on self, not on Jesus.

Our walk with Jesus does cause us to reflect on our sinful nature, to realize the price He paid to save us, and thereby live a life that glows with the gratitude of receiving grace that is undeserved. When the focus is me, it pulls me down and back into thinking about the things the flesh wants, and all the trouble that it gets me, and when I get pulled down enough and feel more and more terrible (the "slough of despond" in the book  Pilgrim's Progress), the Lord reminds me that He saved me from all of that stuff.

I do appreciate the fact that this performer wants to confess his sin at a time when most want to pretend sin doesn't exist, or that it is all a state of mind and that we can choose whatever we want as long as we ourselves are happy, making that the only thing that matters. However let us instead keep the focus on Jesus and what He has done for us. He has forgiven our sin when we confessed it and are truly humbled by what we know to be true about ourselves.

It really doesn't matter what other people say and think about us and the social medias are full of people saying things that they may or may not mean. What matters is Jesus, and Him alone. As John the Baptist said: "He must increase and I must decrease".

Spiritual Gifts

My morning reading was in the book of 1 Corinthians, and it is interesting to me that the things that caused contentions then still do so even today. I guess we do not change all that much, do we?

1Co 11:18 ... when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part,
1Co 11:19  for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.


The Lord even has a plan in this, He's got it under control even when it all looks out of whack to you and me. And we must take care when we think we have it so much better than everyone else, because all good gifts come from God, not from ourselves, and He has these things to further His kingdom, which in His kindness and generosity He has made available to us who do not deserve it, let's face it NONE OF US do.

1Co 12:22 ... the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,
1Co 12:23  and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty,
1Co 12:24  which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it,
1Co 12:25  that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.


When we proudly wag our finger at others for their shame, shame, shame, we need to be careful (and I say this especially to myself!!!I am GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY  of this terrible offense),  because the Lord who sees all will correct the problems correctly in His time. In the meantime let us not know anything more than Jesus and that He was crucified for our sins that we might live and reign with Him forever.

1Co 2:1  And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom.
1Co 2:2  For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
1Co 2:3  And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling,
1Co 2:4  and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5  so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

The Cure for the S.I.N. Virus

John MacArthur says most Christians know what salvation means however their understanding does not give them the ability to share this knowledge in a way that helps others to understand it. He addresses this shortcoming in this sermon, and helps us understand how to share the message of reconciliation with others.

What is the Gospel?: The Ministry of Reconciliation

In this message he clears up the problems MANY have in sharing the gospel. He points out that many Christian leaders/pastors are confused about this and disagree on what the gospel is and how it needs to be shared. There is only ONE truth, ONE way, so WHO HAS IT if there are so many who claim to have it and they all disagree?

Good questions, questions that atheists use against us time and again...and in part they are right. They are wrong in where they go with it, but they are right that divisions in the body of Christ are not of Christ. I'm not an ecumenicalist...I don't think the answer is that we all become one in a pseudo-religion that encompasses all beliefs and "loves" everyone (false because these people..many of them...hate people that go to the Bible for all the answers).

I like where John MacArthur takes this problem: to the Bible, and to Jesus and God the Father who reveals to us His will, only one way, through His word.

He sums up the problems of where we go wrong in this way:
man's religions: are sinners devising ways to reconcile themselves to God,
or God's way: God determining His way of reconciling sinners to Himself.
Our way or His way.

Great sermon!

On Finding Contentment With God Part 2

In a recent post on this blog I mused about finding contentment with God. Paul said he had found the secret to finding that contentment:

Not that I am speaking of being in need, 
for 
I have learned 
in whatever situation I am to be content.  

I know how to 
be brought low,
and
I know how to 
abound. 
In any and every circumstance, 

I have learned 
the secret 

of facing 
plenty and hunger, 
abundance and need.   
I can do all things through him who strengthens me.
(Philippians 4:11-13 KJV)

In that blogposting one of the questions I ask is:

"One day we will die and stand before Jesus.What will matter in that day?"

Will what I had for breakfast, lunch or dinner on any given day matter? Will what I wear today matter on that day? Will what I think of myself...

Are Enablers Nice?

First off, I want to admit right off the bat that left to myself, I am one, an enabler that is. I want people to like me, and want to agree with all sorts of error and sin if it gets their saying: "Susan is such a nice person"... and would be lying if I didn't confess that straight away.

However, the Holy Spirit just won't let me off the hook that easily, and when I do this candy coated evil, I feel very uncomfortable. He won't allow me this hypocrisy for long before I have to confess my error, my sin, my thin veneer of "nice" over a dark icky glob of ENABLER TO WICKEDNESS, ugh!

Rom 1:20  For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21  For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22  Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23  and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.


Notice the regression:
1. they knew God
2. they did not honor Him as God
3. they became futile in their thinking
4. their foolish hearts were darkened
5. they claimed to be wise
6. they became fools
7. they exchanged the glory of immortal God for something that is more similar to mortal man; judging God by mortal and fleshy standards.

which then leads to a whole bunch of other errors, which in our crafty sinful flesh can be covered up with all kinds of "nice"...but the Lord is not fooled...and then not only do they harbor all kinds of covered up ugliness, but the Lord says:

Rom 1:32  Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. 

Wow, there it is. Enablers. Not very pretty at all, is it? If we encourage sin, we are complicit in sin. If we say there is no sin in homosexual behavior, we are complicit in homosexual behavior. If we say there is no sin in abortion, we are complicit in murder. And there is no sin that is not forgiveable...except one, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, in which the truth of sinfulness is revealed, and known, but they would rather cling to the flesh and love fallen sinfulness and decaying wretchedness more than the truth of what God says about it, and encourage those who likewise love sin more than truth. Forgiving: yes....Enabling (encouraging, saying wrongly that it isn't sin, therefore needs no forgiveness): no

Are you an enabler? Do you want to confess the horribleness of it and come clean about it before Christ? He is all-forgiving of the worst sins if we truly humble ourselves before Him with all of our wretched behaviors and mindsets, and confess that He alone is Holy, Gracious, and True, and able to make us partakers of His good qualities through His Holy Spirit,
only by the cross,
the crucifying of our flesh with Him,
by Him and through Him,
His power,
His glory,
His forgiveness,
His goodness,
forever, and forever,
Amen.

A "little thing" called Sin

Is sin really such a minor annoyance, a petty little thing that only nit-pickers and Pharisees worry about? Pharisees were hypocritical in only seeing the sins of others and not in themselves. We are to see both, but to see the sins of others in light of our own grievous sins.

This is what Charles Spurgeon said about the "little sins":

Dr. Jay Klopfenstein

I had the privilege and pleasure of going to The Metropolitan Bible Church in Ottawa yesterday with my husband, and his aunt and uncle. They had a guest pastor who they were hoping to vote into being their senior pastor, Dr. Jay Klopfenstein. I found a Vimeo of a previous visit he made there, in May of this year. This is an AWESOME sermon:


Dr. Jay Klopfenstein: A Case for Spiritual Insomnia from Metropolitan Bible Church on Vimeo.

oops! the video disappeared! But here is another link:

For Their Sakes...

John 17:19  And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

David Dykstra gives an amazing sermon on the profundity of this verse. I mentioned to my dear husband last Sunday how often I run over verses that are so packed with so much incredible meaning, such wealth, and I barely skim off of the surface (if that even) barely even touching what is there. This is one of those verses. I've heard this so often that I have grown callous to the richness of the text, the amazing things that Jesus has done, and does, for each one of His "called out ones". I pray that we stop being so haphazard and overly casual with His divine word, and learn to humble ourselves, and submit to the profound truth that is there, in all of it's powerful glory. David Dykstra helps me to "stop and smell the roses" of God's Word.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1121071424537

Do You Love Me?

Jesus asked that of Peter 3 times. "Peter do you love me?....Feed my sheep"

So often I hear people say that they "love" Jesus, and it might be true. However Jesus knows whether we really love Him, or whether the "love" we have is all just talk and no action.

Isa 29:13  Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men

Last night one of the girls I work with said when WTC was hit in 2001, she broke up with her boyfriend the following week. The reason? She said she found herself thinking of all the people she loved, but her boyfriend was the furthest thing from her mind. She realized then that she didn't really love him, so she broke up with him. At first I thought this strange but I realize now that she was right to do this. She was being honest and so she did what she knew she had to do, she had to do what is right.

There are things that you do for the ones you truly love. There is a communion that you have, you would suffer and even lay down your life for those that you love. You would know if that isn't there. How much more would that be true of our relationship to Jesus? He likens our relationship to a marriage. What kind of relationship would it be if the husband did all the loving, and the wife only gave lip service? Would the marriage last?

Joh 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14  Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

I was brought up Seventh day Adventist, so these verses were always used to say "You see? We have to keep the Saturday sabbath to prove that our love is real." Is that really what He's talking about here?
No, that isn't what Jesus is saying here. That would be too easy, and if that were the case, the pharisees would have been His biggest supporters and truest lovers.

 Jesus laid down His life for the sheep. He died a vicious death why? Just for loving people, truly loving them, and being hated for it. How did He love them? He healed them of all manner of their diseases and told the hypocrites (the ones hiding behind their masks) the truth so that He could heal them of their hypocrisy. And how did they thank Him? You would think that they would love Him, and yet, when He was brought to the courts, even his closest disciples left Him. When He poured out His heart in Gethsemane, the ones who you would have thought would endure everything with Him, fell asleep! Then when Jesus went before the Jewish sanhedrin, the disciple who said he would never let Jesus down denied he even knew Him! That is the kind of love we have, the kind that Peter had, and the kind that I see all too frequently. It is a said love rather than a true love,  and I am ashamed of myself for being that weak. I definitely do not want to be comfortable in that weakness, and pretend to having "love" when I know it is all just talk.

I pray that the Lord would kindle His fire in me, and make my heart of stone into a heart that truly desires to do His will, to the laying down of my flesh.

 1Jn 3:16  Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 


No pretense of love or holiness will pass the test here. God desires our whole entire being. If we truly love Him, we would feed His sheep, the way He fed His sheep, even to the laying down of our lives as truly living sacrifices to the truth of His word, not caring whether people agree with us, or "love" (or say they love) us, but doing what Jesus did even if it gets us killed, but perhaps causes even one person to see the truth and become truly saved by God through any suffering we might suffer. That is true love. That is feeding God's sheep. Not fluffy words that get you "kudos" and empty words of comfort and praise that don't hold the forever test. Not things that stroke our egos into thinking we are something when we are nothing. How true is your and my love really? Can it go through the fires and endure the hatred of men and still all-the-while hold out hands to try to reach those who are lost? Or will we succumb to our flesh and come up with every excuse as to why God doesn't expect us to do that, and that He wants us to coddle our and each other's flesh. Loving our flesh....and each other's flesh....is that the love Jesus taught us? Is that what the Bible says? If your Bible says that, it isn't the same Bible I have been reading.

Fear and Injustice

David Dykstra 's message on Pilate and his dealings with Jesus. It is very revealing about Pilate's "problem" with Jesus, and how many today likewise deal with "the problem" of Jesus, even many who would call themselves "Christian", and who perhaps ARE (who am I to say they aren't, God only knows for sure). The difference is that when Christians are confronted with the truth, we humble ourselves before God, and ask Him to cleanse us from all sins, including the sins we try to hide from ourselves and others.

Pastor Dykstra's message:

Part 1

Part 2

The Necessary Ingredient

photo link

The past few days I've been cooking up a storm. Listening to a sermon given by Phil Johnson this morning on justification through faith, it suddenly dawned on me....faith is like "that" ingredient that makes the recipe. You cannot make roasted turkey without the turkey. There was an episode on "Everybody Loves Raymond" that brings this illustration to my mind. Doris (Raymond's mom) decided she would make a healthy Thanksgiving supper using tofu instead of turkey. She even shaped it to look like a turkey and made it look golden brown on the outside.

photo link

 Raymond saved the day by ordering a real roasted turkey, and Doris had to admit that her tofu-"turkey" was a miserable failure.

*****

God gives us faith. Without faith it is impossible to be saved. Just like you can't have roasted turkey without the turkey, you cannot have salvation, no matter how much work you do to try to buy it or manipulate your way there, without the gift of God's faith. You might have something that you can make look like it. I've done some amazing things with tofu cutlets....but it was never turkey, and no matter how hard I tried to make it into turkey, it just wasn't. It might be something that looks similar, and it might even taste good, but it just isn't the same thing. So it is with a relationship to God. If that relationship is based on my works, my ability, my ANYTHING, it falls short of the glory of God and is unacceptable. It has to be me stepping out of the way and admitting my horrible condition, my depravity, my works earning hellfire, and that ability is from the Lord revealing this truth to me through the gift of His substitutionary life. The "not so secret ingredient" is provided by God to us for a true relationship with Him. 

If it isn't His life substituted for my sin I have no salvation, just like I couldn't have roasted turkey without the turkey.

You can hear Phil Johnson's sermon here at Sermon Audio.

God's Love....

 ... envieth not; ... vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up (1 Corinthians 13:4 KJV)


The ESV puts it this way:

 ...love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 

I see these things warring against my members!

 Romans 7:23  but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 

and

 John 15:12  "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
John 15:13  Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Just a few verses that the Lord was reminding me of this morning. :)

The Tree of Life

Genesis 3:22  Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever--" 

 3:23  therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 

3:24  He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. 

Really think about what is said there for a few moments. Was this cherubim placed there to keep people out? Is that what this verse says? Does it say "to keep people out and away from the tree of life"? 

Now that I've got you thinking a little bit about that verse, look at this one, and compare it with Genesis 3:24

John 14:6  Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Do you see that the words "way" "truth" and "life" are in both verses? No?

Here's another hint:

Hebrews 4:12  For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.  

 4:13  And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account. 

and:

John 17:17  Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 

(another place you can find "truth" being represented by a sword is in the armor of God in Ephesians chapter 6)

Do you see it yet? The way to life is guarded by a flaming sword which is truth.

The way to the tree of life is guarded by a flaming sword of truth that exposes every part of us to the penetrating gaze of God. Without some way prepared God's gaze would kill us instantly because His eyes would slay us...but we have Jesus blood covering us, healing us with His wounds, just as the Israelites were protected by the blood on their doorposts on that first Passover by the blood from the wounds of the Passover lamb.

Ephesians 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 

 2:14  For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 

 2:15  by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 

2:16  and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 

 2:17  And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 

 2:18  For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

Transgression came by the partaking of the fruit of a tree (of the knowledge of good and evil) and forgiveness and restoration comes by the partaking of another fruit of another tree.

Partake of the cup of His suffering with Him, all who are His will also suffer with His suffering (although I personally think it is not to the same degree that He suffered, I don't think it would be possible for any of us to endure that degree of suffering).

1Peter 4:12  Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 

 4:13  But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. 

4:14  If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. 

4:15  But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. 

 4:16  Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. 

 4:17  For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 

4:18  And "If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" 

 4:19  Therefore let those who suffer according to God's will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.

Moderation in all Things

This is an idea that I often struggle to understand and hold onto "in the proper sense". Over the more recent years as I ponder this concept of moderation in all things, I find that I am unable to find that narrow place, and that I trust that it is completely in Jesus's hands, not mine, to do and perform. To some people that seems like a cop out, but truly it is a confession, and stated truly with absolutely no hypocrisy, falling on the mercy of Jesus.

However this is one of those sayings that many of us think is in the Bible, but in fact it is not.

From the Blue Letter Bible:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/sayings.cfm#moderation

Though there is no direct quotation matching the proverb, Paul does use a similar idea in his description of the successful athlete:

And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown (1 Corinthians 9:25).

While Paul could be making reference to an Aristotalean sort of ethic of moderation here, it is more likely that the phrase translated here as "temperate in all things" should be better rendered as "wholly self-controlled" or "entirely self-disciplined." Several alternative translations favour this reading of the text. Thayer's Greek Lexicon notes that Paul is presenting the figure of an athlete who trains himself, taking charge of his body, abstaining from "unwholesome foods, wine, and sexual indulgence" that he might perform at the peak of his potential prowess.

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?

Heb 2:1  Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
Heb 2:2  For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
Heb 2:3  How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Heb 2:4  God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
Heb 2:5  For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Heb 2:6  But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Heb 2:7  Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9  But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10  For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11  For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12  Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Heb 2:13  And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Heb 2:14  Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15  And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

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This is one of "those passages" that is brought up by those who believe we can "lose our salvation". All things need to be taken together and in context. Jesus says He will never lose those who are His. He does, however, also give warnings. We can lose spiritual blessings and gifts, and perhaps some people might risk the loss of these in desiring the temporary satisfactions of the lusts of the flesh over those gifts that are precious and from God. I'm not saying I have this down perfectly, and that I am going to receive all spiritual gifts God is desirous for me to have. This is an area that He does give us some free range to botch it up, and I do believe that His love and grace covers a multitude of sins. However, I also believe that we can have alot more joy and peace if we don't "neglect so great a salvation" which have been affirmed through the signs of His forgiving grace in our lives.

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1Pe 4:1  Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2  That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:3  For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4  Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Pe 4:5  Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6  For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1Pe 4:7  But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
1Pe 4:8  And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
1Pe 4:9  Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
1Pe 4:10  As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
1Pe 4:11  If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
1Pe 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pe 4:14  If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15  But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
1Pe 4:16  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Pe 4:19  Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

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When the time comes for suffering and tribulation we will rejoice and not think it is God punishing us because He hates us, but rather that He is allowing us the privilege of partaking of the suffering that Christ also suffered. That knowledge and that intimacy will sustain us through the worst of time, and ultimately through our pains of physical death, the end of our mortality here. That intimacy will free us from the manipulations of those who will try to force their earthly powers over us to try to subject us to their will. They will have no power over us because they can kill our bodies but they can never kill our soul, nor separate us from the love of Jesus.

O Sacred Head Now Wounded

The Fall and the Ransom Price

 Link to this image

In continuing my reading of the dialogue on "Free Will vs Sovereignty of God" on the aforementioned message forum I came across another posting by Mr White that I copy for you here:



Elktooth your point is well taken, if the LORD God commanded the man saying, “… from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die,” how was it possible to eat and not have free will? The answer I believe is found in the last part of the LORD’s command, “…for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.” The LORD states that there is a specific day when Adam would eat from it and start to die… all for the good, so we could experience the Love of Jesus!
Unworthly to your question if God is responsible for sin … Ex 21:33-34 tells us: “And if a man opens a pit, or digs a pit and does not cover it over, and an ox or a donkey falls into it, the owner of the pit shall make restitution; he shall give money to its owner, and the dead animal shall become his.”
The owner of the pit is liable even if he did not physically force the ox into the pit. The fact remains that he ALLOWED it to happen by digging the pit and not covering it. He is liable on the grounds that he could have prevented it but did not. He created the OPPORTUNITY for the ox to fall into the pit. And so, God’s law rules that the man who opened the pit is legally liable and must pay restitution to the animal's owner. In applying the spirit of this law to Adam's situation in the garden, God is both the owner of the pit and the owner of the ox (Adam). First, God dug a pit, because he created an opportunity for Adam to sin. God did not cover this pit in that He created Adam with the potential to sin and created a tree of knowledge, putting it within Adam's reach. God created an opportunity for Adam (the ox) to fall into the pit (sin and death). That made God legally liable by His own law and created a "tension" that demanded a resolution. The lawful solution is that restitution must be made. The final result is that "the dead animal shall become his." So God bought the dead ox (Adam and all who died in Adam), and the ox became His. Is not this why Jesus came? He fulfilled the law to the letter, purchasing all who died in Adam.
“When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet [railing] for your roof, that you may not bring bloodguilt on your house if anyone falls from it.” Dt 22:8
If you neglected to build a railing and someone fell off and were killed, you would be liable for involuntary manslaughter. When God allowed Adam to fall, and when God allowed the tempter to tempt Adam, He left the railing off the roof. He did not take the safety precaution required by His own law that would have prevented Adam and Eve from falling. And so, when God walked in the garden "in the cool of the day" (Gen. 3:8), He found that Adam and Eve had fallen off the roof. God became liable. This liability would have to last until the death of the High Priest. Jesus had to come as the true High Priest of the temple in heaven and die, in order to release God from the liability incurred and strike the chord that would again bring harmony to the sphere of the universe.
God deliberately made Himself liable, not only for Adam's death, but for the death of Adam's sons and daughters (Ex 21:31) as well. Was a "ransom" (Ex 21:30) demanded of God as a result of the liability? Whether demanded or not, Jesus voluntarily gave Himself as a ransom for ALL (1 Tim 2:6). The demand is defined in Ex 21 as "life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth," etc. And so we see Christ coming down to earth in the form of a man to pay "life for life" all the demands of His own law. None of this makes God a sinner, for He has not failed in fulfilling ANY of His plans and purposes for creation. He planned all this from the beginning. He made Himself liable for the sins of the whole world and then paid its full penalty.

I stand amazed...

And the last post in that thread (at this point in time anyway) is hilarious! ShannO (Arminian...? I think? although she/he goes all over the place and makes no sense whatsoever...) is shown to be completely wrong in her (I'm thinking she is a she, because it's usually us women that get this contorted) replies and ends with:

Kinda busy right now. Don't have time to respond properly.

Good one.

smilie link

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Ha! she finally came out of hiding with the same ole tactic of "ARE YOU A CALVINIST???" being her main line of argument....sigh...oh well....