(this link focuses a bit too much on evil for my taste, but I like the picture)
“the
smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever” (Revelation 14:11)
A few years ago I had read something
somewhere which talked about the contrasts in the Bible; the juxtaposition
of opposites regarding good and evil, and light and darkness,
etc. I've been wanting to explore that more, just one of those things
that I have said I would get to someday...and then a few mornings ago, I couldn't
stop thinking about that phrase about the smoke of their torment,
which then got me thinking about it's opposite, the prayers of the
saints.
Rev
8:3
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden
censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should
offer it
with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before
the throne.
Rev
8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which
came
with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the
angel's hand.
Rev
8:5
And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar,
and cast it
into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and
lightnings, and an earthquake.
The prayers of all the saints are
rising from the fire on the golden altar before the throne of God.
The angel takes some of that fire that the prayers are rising up
from, puts it into a censer, and throws it into the earth! And these
verses come just before the 7 angels with 7 trumpets are introduced.
That fire brings this to mind:
1Pe
4:12
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to
try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe
4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings;
that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with
exceeding joy.
1Pe
4:14
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are
ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he
is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
Again we see that contrasting of “us”
and “them”. They speak evil of the name of Christ, but the Spirit
of glory and of God rests upon us and we glorify His name! The fiery
trials that cause the world to curse, causes us to rejoice, because
we can pray, and call upon His name, and He rescues us from our time
of trouble, and this brings to mind another phrase regarding “them”:
“There but by the grace of God go I”
For anyone who has doubts about there being a hell, I would recommend reading this link.
image link
More links:
This next link touches on opposites as contrasted in scripture, as well as some interesting thoughts on symbolism:
This next one comes with a huge disclaimer, in that, I appreciate the list of opposites from the book of Revelation that is given on this page, but the website promotes "Bible codes" which I have heard is not a good thing (and am inclined to think it probably isn't, but having not fully researched what this site has to say about it so I cannot truly say anything except to "test all things" and pray). Therefore, if you'd like to look at this list here is the link, please do so prayerfully:
Bible links to what is known about the traits of being saved vs. the unrighteous:
Contrasting the old and new covenants:
I always found it hard to understand why the prayers of the saints would be pictured as incense here. I thought that in the New Jerusalem we would be right there with Jesus and God.
ReplyDeleteRevelation sure is a tough book to figure out!
I haven't verified this story, but I have heard from several sources that Calvin didn't write a commentary on Revelation, and that he said the reason he didn't do so was because he didn't understand it very well. I'm sure Calvin would have had a lot of interesting things to say about Revelation, but it's one hard book to read.
DeleteTrue about Revelation being a tough book, Ma :)
ReplyDeleteI'm seeing this as pertaining to the saints lives while on earth, the difficulty of life being like in a crucible of fire (as Daniel's 3 friends also were, yet were accompanied by a fourth being, which many see as a Christophany in the OT). While in difficulty I often sigh and ask the Lord "why?", or pray for relief. I view the world as cursing God when things don't go their way, and their cursing will continue on into eternity, but we will still be praising God into eternity, although once with Him it won't come out of our being pressed to do so because of the fiery trials. God is a consuming fire, according to scripture, He burns away the dross and leaves the pure gold completely refined. When we are with Him, we will be pure like Him because He will have refined all of our dross away, so our praise and prayers will be completely pure, purged of all sin, that is how our prayers reach Him now, having been refined through fire, a sweet smelling incense.
That's how I'm seeing it, but that doesn't necessarily make it the way it is...I'll try to find more perspectives on this on the world wide web, and if I find anything I'll post links in the original post. <3
Susan, I like your paraphrase of Scripture here. You bring out the Bible's teachings about God's being a fire in a powerful way. I am reminded of the similarity between passages in the OT that speak of the sweet smell of burnt offerings (e.g., Noah's burnt offering after the flood) and passages in the NT that speak of Jesus as a sweet smelling sacrifice (e.g., in Ephesians). One of my favorite passages that describes God as a purifying fire occurs in the last chapter of Malachi. Powerful stuff. And, this might sound odd, but I have always been a bit fascinated by God's killing of Nadab and Abihu by fire in Leviticus 10. There is something primal and terrifying about that scene, but also something sober and wise and true that reveals something important about God. Actually, there has been a fair amount of debate about the interpretation of that passage, but the way I read it is this - God is holy which, at the very least, means that sin cannot come before presence of God, and that sin will be destroyed if it does so. (I take it that the teaching about coming before the altar in Lev. 16 has much the same message.) Fortunately for us, God decided to purge our sin through Jesus instead of simply destroying us. Sometimes I still marvel that God made that choice. Anyway, I enjoyed your post.
DeleteI never noticed that reference to the prayer of the saints when reading Revelation in the past. It is interesting and beautiful. Do you think that Revelation teaches that the prayers of the saints are effective for people on earth when the angel distributes them? I suppose I should go and read Revelation to understand the context...
ReplyDeleteRev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
DeleteRev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
The way that I read it... and I could be completely, or partially (probably) wrong is that the angel mixes the prayers with the incense, make them sweet...the other verse saying that it ascended out of the angel's hand is after it is mixed with the incense...could the "angel" here be Jesus, with the term meaning "messenger" which is also what some of the Christophanies of the Old Testament referred to Him (Angel of the Lord, or, messenger of the Lord) such as in Judges 13 when He appeared to Samson's parents telling them they would have a child. This is one of those areas that is so hazy, and that get people thinking that Jesus was "just an angel" although the mightiest of the angels...with which I disagree, and is something that the SDA religion teaches.
One of the links at the bottom of the original post had something about the way Jesus sacrifice on our behalf is what carries our prayers to God, His sacrifice, that makes sense.
DeleteThanks for the reply. By the way, I would take Hebrews to contradict the idea that Jesus is just an angel, even the most powerful angel. Then again, I think that there are many passages in the NT that straightforwardly suggest that Jesus = God, and since God isn't an angel, Jesus isn't one either. (By the way, I think that Hebrews itself teaches that Jesus = God.)
ReplyDeleteSusan, I have been meaning to ask you a question for a while now. I am embarrassed to have waited so long to ask it, but here goes: did you get married recently? If so, did you ever write about this explicitly on one of your blogs? If so, I am very sorry to have missed that, and please let me say "Congratulations!!" If you didn't get married recently, please ignore my question.
Hi Leslie,
DeleteI agree about it being clear that Jesus is God, when Jesus said "I AM" and caused a garrison of soldiers that were with Judas to fall down, was a clear tie to Jesus being the voice of the burning bush that told Moses to take off his shoes because he was standing on holy ground. See John 18:1-9 especially verse 6.
I did get married recently, Leslie, in August. I didn't make a blog post about it. Thank you for the kind sentiment. :)
I suspected as much. :) Hurray!! Again, congratulations!!
Delete